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spk1121
spk1121
Steve K
Tue, Jul. 19th, 2005 10:55 pm
Running amok

We like to believe we are an enlightened society, but I think we are declining very quickly as a civilization.  Part of this is due to the rise of "fuzzy, touchy-feely, everyone's a winner" mass mentality.  People want so much to shield their children from potential harm that they start getting into denial, telling their kids that they "deserve" all good things.  You know what?  Kids get bruised, physically and mentally.  You shouldn't expect your kid to put up with unnecessary crap, but crap still happens.  That's life.  A good parent doesn't hover over a child or cover their eyes, they guide them and pick them up when necessary.

My old elementary school used to have a wonderful tire jungle gym and swing set, along with a large metal more conventional jungle gym on another part of the playground.  The tires, especially, gave the school a unique atmosphere and set it apart.  Of course, those playsets are long gone now.  I am sure the school was afraid of getting sued, I sincerely doubt they even actually were.  In the name of keeping our children "safe," we have become a more fearful society.

Being a SLIS grad, I've heard stories about librarians being expected to look stuff up for children.  Not with them, or teaching them, but doing the work.  Parents will often come in and do scholastic work for their supposedly brilliant progeny.  Or, they will allow their kids to run wild and expect the librarians to act like babysitters.  What in the world?  Parents are so interested in being their children's "friends" that the ability to parent is being lost.

It's an acknowledged fact that children do not have the same standing as adults, in a legal sense.  They cannot marry until a certain age, drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, etc.  The Supreme Court has even issued rulings that allow schools to search lockers, and such things.  In much the same way, prisoners cannot vote and are subject to searches.  They can also be physically restrained, yet unruly children cannot.  Why is this?  I got spanked as a kid, and turned out fine.  There are just some people who need to have a little fear put into them, especially when they're young and still have a chance of things getting through their thick skulls.  Actions have to have consequences.  Humilation should NOT be degradation, but a lesson in humility.

If corporal punishment were to be reinstated, I think it would need to be clearly defined and teachers would have to be given proper training.  Limits would have to be set, and accountability in place.  However, if I knew that certain safeguards were in place, I would be happy to put my child in a classroom where he/she might be spanked if they were misbehaving.  As long as people know the drill ahead of time, that should be an option.  Perhaps schools could offer "exemption classrooms" or something.  If nothing else, people can use those government vouchers to send their child someplace where they feel more comfortable.

The Buddha said, "Life is suffering."  Jesus Christ was nailed to a set of wooden planks.  Pain is a part of life, but we'd rather drug ourselves and set up a whole fabrication of how life "should be," not how it is.  Kids get hurt, but they recover.  Be there to support them, but don't shelter them.  And for goodness sake, don't go suing everybody when things don't go your way.  We need to grow up, adults and children alike.

Tags:
Current Mood: hot hot

14CommentReply

hellokitty138
hellokitty138
hellokitty138
Wed, Jul. 20th, 2005 04:13 am (UTC)

You got that right on! And if anyone thinks that this supposedly wonderful style of parenting is working, they should talk to a teacher or two. A frighteningly high number of kids are totally out of control because they receive no discipline. Wouldn't want to ruin their self esteem! I'd love to share some of the antics of the 7 and 3 year-old children of my mom's cousins, but am too exhausted right now. OMG, these kids are unbelievable.


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leftyviolist
leftyviolist
leftyviolist
Wed, Jul. 20th, 2005 04:23 am (UTC)

I completely agree. I see the end result in my classroom - I am still always shocked when a kid sasses back at me after I've asked him/her to do X/Y/Z. You might be interested in reading Millenials Rising by Neil Howe. A lot of the book is to be taken with a grain of salt, but it looks into why kids born after about 1983 are so unruly and why their parents treat them the way they do. An interesting read. I, myself, am proud to be a Gen Xer. :D


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jesc
jesc
Lady Miss Jessica
Wed, Jul. 20th, 2005 04:40 am (UTC)

I think that spanking kids is a good idea, if that is the best solution for dealing with undesirable behavior. (Especially after seeing the behavior of a few children whose parents never spank them, I'm all for corporeal punishment!)


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silentknight
Matthew
Wed, Jul. 20th, 2005 01:28 pm (UTC)

*applaud*


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psychogryphon
psychogryphon
Kim
Wed, Jul. 20th, 2005 01:36 pm (UTC)

I completely agree with you! I am sick and tired of hearing this parent sueing this school because of this or that... TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS OR OWN IN-ACTIONS!! I too was spanked as a child and think I turned out just fine. If there wasn't such a stigma on it now - that it's child abuse and such nonsense - I would still do it to my kids (when ever I eventually have some).... But being as society is now, I'm not so sure... wouldn't want to go to jail for being a good parent!


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frogs_n_turtles
frogs_n_turtles
Elizabeth
Wed, Jul. 20th, 2005 02:02 pm (UTC)

I say, "Amen, brutha!"

And BTW, corporal punishment is still allowed in IN. It's just not enforced a lot and I think a cop has to be present.


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cornfields
cornfields
cornfields
Wed, Jul. 20th, 2005 02:05 pm (UTC)

I agree with you on some points. I was spanked as a child, and so was my husband, and we both have no problem with the idea of spanking in general. I remember it gave me a healthy fear and respect for my parents. I also vividly remember my great grandmother making me go out into the yard to find a "switch," which was pure torture. I'd be sobbing as I looked for a good-sized twig. It wasn't like they did it often; when I was spanked, I deserved it. I could be an ornery kid, and my husband was about twice as bad as I was. ;)

I think I would have a problem with someone else smacking my child. There are so many psychos out there, and I wouldn't trust anyone else to judge what was spank-worthy. I would much prefer that I get a phone call, and myself or my husband would handle the issue when our child returned home from school. This was how it was when I was a kid, and the anticipation of a spanking when I arrived home was almost worse than the actual spanking itself.

And for goodness sake, don't go suing everybody when things don't go your way. We need to grow up, adults and children alike.

Word. I'm sick of how litigious Americans have become.


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leah_leanna
leah_leanna
Wed, Jul. 20th, 2005 03:47 pm (UTC)
The Parent

~Speaking as the parent here(and therefore convinced I am more qualified to give an opinion here)...My two year old son is a handful, and spanking is one of the means I have of punishing him for misbehaving or disobeying. As I said, it is one of the ways...not the only way. While I truly feel that a spanking is a loving parent's punishment, I do NOT, AT ALL, agree with anyone else being allowed to spank my child. Corporal punishment becomes indecent when administered by a non-parent in my mind. It should be administered with love, by someone who is trusted by that child. Grrrrrr...I could so go on and on...but I have work to do.


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jedibuttercup
jedibuttercup
jedibuttercup
Wed, Jul. 20th, 2005 04:04 pm (UTC)
Sheltering Children

I agree with most of the above, though I wouldn't be comfortable with overworked public servants trying to decide what is spank-worthy and what isn't. Parents need to be educated on what kind of discipline is useful and best for their child in the long-run; you can't impose the discipline from outside and hope for it to be successful, if there's no support at home. Not unless the child themselves goes looking for that kind of structure.

But I digress. I just wanted to comment-- I have two young cousins aged 10 and 15 who still aren't allowed to watch PG-13 movies on a regular basis, nor read anything remotely 'dark'; one of the effects of this is that the 10-year-old is still easily terrified by even fairly tame Disney cartoons, like "Sleeping Beauty". Kids these days are expected to have their whole lives planned out before they graduate high school, but how are they supposed to have any idea how the world works and what to plan for if they're so sheltered beforehand?

The original fairy tales, before Disney got their hands on them, were much creepier and gorier than what children are allowed to read today. Children understand a lot more than adults give them credit for. And I think a little literary education on the evils of the world and how good people stand up to them instills a better sense of morals in general, even in those from irreligious households-- the basic building blocks of a person's character are set down long before they ever reach teenage years.


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leoetiquette
leoetiquette
Mary Jack
Wed, Jul. 20th, 2005 05:05 pm (UTC)

Boy, do I hear you!


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moogie277
moogie277
Wed, Jul. 20th, 2005 06:22 pm (UTC)

Yeah! The old tire jungle gym! I used to love that thing...except for the bees that used to make the tires their home.


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femalegamer
femalegamer
Carrie
Wed, Jul. 20th, 2005 07:03 pm (UTC)

Depending on the kid, it may even be enough to discipline them in other ways. It's a tough subject for me because well...

my parents tell me I was an angel, starting as an infant who barely ever cried, even when wet. *blush* *tries to look humble or something*

Anyway... in my case, I was only ever spanked twice in my entire childhood, and I believe I was grounded only once. I was, however, told that things I was doing were wrong, sometimes in a VERY elevated tone of voice.

So I find myself not much of an advocate for corporal punishment, but I have a tendency to burst into tears when someone yells at me... irk.


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michaela080
michaela080
michaela080
Thu, Jul. 21st, 2005 04:19 am (UTC)

I don't have kids yet, so I don't have very much back up to my opinions. However, I feel that spanking should only be necessary if you have not brought your child up right with structure, stability, boundaries, and consequences (not physical) from day one. To me, spanking may get the job done, but not in the way you want it to. You want the kid to have natural consequences for his actions so that he understands why he is not to do something, not just that he will get hit for doing it. I feel that any time physical force is used should only be an occasion where a child is in danger and you have to grab them or get their attention or smack their hands away from something, etc. That being said, many kids in schools have not been appropriately brought up with consistant parenting and appropriate consequences from day one, so how do you deal with that when those kids are coming to school? This I don't know, especially when you have kids that say "My dad told my to hit somebody if they call me a name," and it's true. Many of the kids who would be the ones you would want to spank have parents who blame whatever the kid has done wrong on somebody else anyway, so it's doubtful they would agree to a spanking. Seeing as I work in a school, I would not be comfortable spanking someone else's child even if they said I could, nor would I want my child in a school where this could be a consequence (not that he would get spanked without my permission, I just wouldn't agree with that environment). And, yes lawsuits today are petty, but think about it: you know a parent would agree to a spanking and then sue the school because they thought the spanking was too hard or something. It seems to me that any child should respond to consistancy, regular structure, and non-physical consequences for his actions as long as his brain is functioning normally. If his brain isn't, such as the child truly has ADD or something than I think normalizing drugs should be tried. So many people are afraid of drugs now, and they are overprescribed, but many children really do benefit from them. If the drugs don't work, or you really don't like the side effects, then stop the drugs. I also think alot of kids act out because they don't have any structure or stability at home. That needs to be established before any punishing. Well, that just my rambling opinion. Who knows, maybe it's idealistic and once I have kids maybe I'll change my tune.


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spk1121
spk1121
Steve K
Thu, Jul. 21st, 2005 06:50 am (UTC)
Rambling on

Who knows, maybe it's idealistic and once I have kids maybe I'll change my tune.
Yeah, I'm honest enough to admit I might very well shift my own beliefs if and when I have kids. I am just interested in putting my thoughts together now, and seeing how much those views match with others. I am willing to concede that I may not be right about certain things, and I am interested in hearing what others have to say. So, thanks for your feedback. :)


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